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Mark
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 05:35 (2010)    Sujet du message: Good work Répondre en citant

Bryan and Francois, I appreciate your work. Your testing on this panzerwood has my interest. Looking for more information I found  that Clearaudio uses this wood for their line of turntables now. I was about to make a plinth out of slate but I put a hold on my project.
Have you any plans on measuring slate for damping qualities?
Thank you again for your work.

Mark
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 05:35 (2010)    Sujet du message: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 06:46 (2010)    Sujet du message: Re: Good work Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:

Have you any plans on measuring slate for damping qualities?


Mark


Mark,

You should be able to find slate measurements somewhere along this thread or somewhere in this other thread:
http://lenco.reference.xooit.fr/t462-tennis-balls-anyone.htm

hats off
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 13:24 (2010)    Sujet du message: Merci Répondre en citant

Much appreciated!
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 13:50 (2010)    Sujet du message: Re: Merci Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:
Much appreciated!
No regrets in abandoning the "slate project" Question
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 16:30 (2010)    Sujet du message: Slate project Répondre en citant

Franois
 Reading through the thread you suggested and giving more thought to this subject I will persue making a slate plinth then later one made of panzerwood for comparative purposes.

On another note the discovery of benonite polyester as a damping substance is very interesting. Have you tried putting it in a cloth bag and setting your phono stage and perhaps other components on it? Maybe even a cd player if you use one?

I use a simular substance I put in a cloth bag and it works very ,very good, on some but not all components of course .It is small seed casings from some sort of plant, believe it or not. They measure 3 to 4 mm long.
The source was from a fellow I met at a audio show in Los Vegas U.S. many years ago. We were sitting at a bar and chatted about what we listen to at the show. He offered this stuff to me for damping vibrations and mailed a box of it after I arrived home. I thought this guy was a little screwy at first with this idea. No not at all, hearing is believeing.

 An idea I have for my turntable projects is to put this stuff inside the plinth especially in and around the bearing housing and possibly other moving parts housed in a cover as you would find on some direct drive tables.
 Just something to try for myself. 

Keep up the good work guy's.

Mark
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 16:45 (2010)    Sujet du message: Re: Slate project Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:


On another note the discovery of benonite polyester as a damping substance is very interesting. Have you tried putting it in a cloth bag and setting your phono stage and perhaps other components on it? Maybe even a cd player if you use one?


Mark,

I have made some kind of pads poly/bento, 15mm thick that I lent a friend to test under his gear. Beside he having excellent ears, ha also has a very sensible system that is quite prone to reveal the benfits(or not) of such a device.
If the test is to turn positive, I may consider a little production of these pads.

hats off
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MessagePosté le: Mar 30 Mar - 18:05 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

Franois , I took a moment and went to your web site and I see you are a Master Craftsmen....... #violon# Beautiful work you do in a Beautiful location in France.
Mark
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MessagePosté le: Dim 4 Avr - 17:47 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

you have to understand what damping is. Materials like panzerholz and filled polyester resin have intrinsic damping, that is, if you excite them, they do not resonate, or in reality, resonate very little, with rapidly decaying vibration. So their advantage is that they do not require extra damping. However, there are better materials to use for damping if required.

One of the biggest problems when adding damping is ensuring the damping material has intimate contact with a large surface area of the material to be damped. There is little literature information on determining the amount of damping material required to effect the damping required. One suggestion is 10-20%, by volume. The 'law of mixtures' works with volumes, rather than mass, for example. So placing a vibrating source on damping pads, especially if separated by 'damping feet' is hardly likely to be effective.

This is why materials like bamboo, aluminium composites, panzerholz and filled polyester resin are so good for plinth duty, no more damping is required, but where most other materials are lacking, like slate. The problem with slate is partly due to its stiffness, which means its critical frequency will be low, and because it has so little damping, the resonant frequencies, if excited, will be high thin peaks. At thicknesses common in plinths (about 25mm) critical frequency will be about 500Hz, meaning around and above this frequency, there will be many high resonance peaks, making the sound of the plinth good in the bass, but 'enhanced ' in the mid range and high frequency regions. People who 'enjoy' slate plinths are likely to have catridge/arms which lack mid frequency definition, or clear high frequency extention. Not that slate will correct this situation, merely give a more distorted version of the output in these regions.

Plinths made from good dampers will sound very neutral, if lacking in sparkle or excitement at first. On prologed listening, the lack of 'enhancement' will show, as will the music from a 'black' background.   
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 02:47 (2010)    Sujet du message: PanzerHolz plinth project Répondre en citant

Bryan,

 I recently completed a plinth for a Technics SP 10 MKII table with added damping material in and around the motor housing. A Graham Phantom arm & TW Acustics solid bronze arm board were installed in this project.

The laminated Panzer ply & this loose material I used to my absolute delight had an enormous effect on the performance of this table.

A Lenco table will be my next project in the next couple of months.


I would like to send you a sample of this loose material for testing at my expense of course.
If you are interested we could chat further on your web site.

Cheers

Mark 
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 06:51 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

Hi Mark,

Could you tell us more about this "loose material" Question

Cheers,

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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 13:40 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

Hi Francois,

This material is organic & is simply seed casings about 3 to 4 mm in length. Experimenting with this material in the past I found a cut to fit cotton bag works verywell.

Placed under tube phono stages, preamplifiers, c.d., DVD players it works & works verywell.

My PanzerHolz project I thought to use this material inside the plinth. The loose damping material was placed in a cut to fit bag & was evenly distributed around the motor housing & tightly fastened down to the panzer ply and damping material by five brass threaded rods into the chassis of the table.

Now this is the issue , how much does this loose seed material contribute to the sonics of the table? The only way to find out is to remove it and listen.

Mark
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 13:46 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:
Hi Francois,
This material is organic & is simply seed casings about 3 to 4 mm in length. Experimenting with this material in the past I found a cut to fit cotton bag works verywell.

Placed under tube phono stages, preamplifiers, c.d., DVD players it works & works verywell.

My PanzerHolz project I thought to use this material inside the plinth. The loose damping material was placed in a cut to fit bag & was evenly distributed around the motor housing & tightly fastened down to the panzer ply and damping material by five brass threaded rods into the chassis of the table.

Now this is the issue , how much does this loose seed material contribute to the sonics of the table? The only way to find out is to remove it and listen.

Mark

However, I am so enjoying what I am hearing at the moment I do not what to disturb anything!

Though I will at some point soon remove it.
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 13:54 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:
Hi Francois,

This material is organic & is simply seed casings about 3 to 4 mm in length. Experimenting with this material in the past I found a cut to fit cotton bag works verywell.

Placed under tube phono stages, preamplifiers, c.d., DVD players it works & works verywell.


Shocked is it the same thing that they fill pillow with Question
My daughter has one and as a matter of fact, when she sleeps, I don't hear her anymore Very Happy Wink
i may borrow her pillow and test it under some of my hi-fi elements. I hope they won't fell asleep


hats off
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 14:30 (2010)    Sujet du message: My plinth projects/plans Répondre en citant

François a écrit:
Mark a écrit:
Hi Francois,
This material is organic & is simply seed casings about 3 to 4 mm in length. Experimenting with this material in the past I found a cut to fit cotton bag works verywell.

Placed under tube phono stages, preamplifiers, c.d., DVD players it works & works verywell.



Shocked is it the same thing that they fill pillow with Question
My daughter has one and as a matter of fact, when she sleeps, I don't hear her anymore Very Happy Wink
i may borrow her pillow and test it under some of my hi-fi elements. I hope they won't fell asleep


hats off


Thats funny.......Anyway perhaps it is, my sample came in a cardboard box with instructions to use it in bags.

The proof would be in the pudding by accualy using it & listening to it's effects.

Cheers

Mark
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 29 Avr - 15:19 (2010)    Sujet du message: Re: PanzerHolz plinth project Répondre en citant

Mark a écrit:
Bryan,

 I recently completed a plinth for a Technics SP 10 MKII table with added damping material in and around the motor housing. A Graham Phantom arm & TW Acustics solid bronze arm board were installed in this project.

The laminated Panzer ply & this loose material I used to my absolute delight had an enormous effect on the performance of this table.

A Lenco table will be my next project in the next couple of months.


I would like to send you a sample of this loose material for testing at my expense of course.
If you are interested we could chat further on your web site.

Cheers

Mark 
Hi Mark,
first, I am happy to see that you have had success with ideas and materials that we find good, too. And that you say you will join the Lencoites soon!

The work that I do is free for anyone to use, and I test materials for others, and publish the results, for all to benefit. If you are willing to send material to me, I will test it, and post the results on this forum, and my web site. If you want the results to be confidential, then you will have to refer to my web site for details. François and others are to be applauded in the way they have made the information available., and I would like continue in the same way. bravo bravo bravo

François,
the reference to the bentonite was from a Google book, which I have failed to note, so I suppose it was not too helpful. I'll continue to look. I have just received a kg of isophthalic resin, and I am about to ask questions on the manufacturer's forum, more details when I have done this.
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