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PICKERING DTL-3 ???

 
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MessagePosté le: Sam 8 Aoû - 17:18 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Trouvé ce matin un stylet Pickering Neuf dans sa boite avec la reference:

DTL-3
"Floating stylus" for stereo cartridge.
Stereohedron stylus for linear tracking turntables.
TF: 1gr +/- 1/4
Corps Blanc, logo pickering  et ref en noir .

(Désolé de la mauvaise qualité de la photo.) Embarassed

Elle n'est pas compatible avec la cartourche V15 ( ne s'emboite pas correctement et pas de son au test ) et je n'ose pas l'essayer sur la XV15 ( du fait que celle ci est  une MM iron!)

Je cherche donc des infos sur la cartouche qui correspondrait à ce stylet.

d'avance merci.


Eric


 
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MessagePosté le: Sam 8 Aoû - 17:49 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Bien!

Là je me suis appliqué à maitriser l'appareil photo rose bonbon de ma fille...


Le stylet mystère dont il est question plus haut... déjà mieux hein!?

Et tant que j'y suis, dans le lot de ce matin il y avait aussi ça:



Audio-Technica AT13a

Le stylet est complètement et définitivement MORT!! Sad

La question est: cette cellule mérite-elle un N.O.S ?
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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 09:55 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Définitivement !

http://www.stereoneedles.com/audio-technica.html

Tu peux même y installer des stylets de la gamme ATN14 avec diamant taillé SHibata ! Des classiques en MM. Mais sur ta photo le stylet n'a pas de protège pointe contrairement sur le site indiqué. Quel est la référence exacte sur le dos de la cellule ?
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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 10:09 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Regarde les specs de la ATN14 !!!

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&…

Je pense même qu'il devrait aussi y avoir compatibilité avec certains stylets ATN15, un des meilleures MM de AT

Mais vérifie bien avant le type de cellule, les références AT peuvent prêter à confusion
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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 22:22 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Bonsoir Maco

Un grand merci pour les infos. bow

En effet le (demi)stylet qui est sur la cartouche est dépourvus de sa petite "visière" de protection, mais  pas de regret, ce n'est qu'une copie  et le tout ne m'a coûté que quelques centimes ! Smile

Au vus des specs, je pense que je vais aller sans hésitation vers du stylet d'origine! Razz
Mais heuuu... Peut-être pas tout de suite non plus , hormis cette cellule et le stylet pickering j'ai un peu...Beaucoup Rolling Eyes lâché le porte monnaie sur les galettes ce week. De plus,histoire de m'amuser un peu et par curiosité (mais aussi dans l'attente de trouver un stylet stanton 500EE N.O.S), j'ai commandé un stylet  500 nouvelle version DJ pour la pickering V15 de ma Lenco, ça risque de faire BOUMBOUMBOUM!!!



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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 22:44 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hi, Eric.

Your DTL stylus will probably work nicely in a Stanton 500 or Pickering V15 body.

NOTE: I WAS WRONG. SEE POST BELOW.

I don't have the Pickering specifications in my brain the way that I do for the Stanton brand and the information isn't handy, so I may make a slight error here. This stylus was intended for the P-mount system.

The Stanton company (parent of Pickering) used three different technologies for their P-mount products. In short, these were:

- Moving magnet - similar to Stanton 500/Pickering V15
- Induced magnet - equivalent to Stanton 680/681/Pickering XV15
- Moving magnet - similar to models with samarium-cobalt magnets such as the Stanton 881, 981, Pickering 3000-5000, etc.

Needle interchange from one group to another should not be attempted due to possible magnetism transfer.

You may find a subtle change in the tonal balance with your needle in a body from the first group because there was a slight change in the electrical characteristics of the Mk. II and P-mount bodies at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't hear any difference. I haven't done any tests between the two types myself. If the stylus is really a Stereohedron, it's quite a nice needle to live with.
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Dernière édition par Richard le Jeu 20 Aoû - 21:12 (2009); édité 1 fois
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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 23:28 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hello Richard

I installed the stylus DTL-3 in my cartridge pickering V15 (P/AT-1) but i have no sound!
And the stylus is too small for the cartridge!

I just do a test with a magnétic compass, wen i move the stylus V15 P/AT the compass that moves with the stylus, i thing this happens because the P/AT is a moving magnet stylus. With the stylus DTL-3 the compass does not respond! Then i think that is a movement iron?

What is your opinon on this?
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MessagePosté le: Dim 9 Aoû - 23:59 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

I look now if the stylus fits with my XV15 cartridge...

It's positioned perfectly!...



But i'm afraid to destroy the cartridge if i run on the turntable!?
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MessagePosté le: Mar 11 Aoû - 23:43 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hi, Eric.

I just went downstairs and got out my old Pickering catalogs. The DTL-3S stylus for the TL-3S cartridge. This is an induced-magnet 4-coil design. There's no reason why it should not be perfectly compatible with your XV15 cartridge body.

The Pickering TL and SP cartridges were made for the P-Mount system (also referred to as "universal mount" cartridges). P-mount standard tracking force was 1.25 grams, and almost all P-mount cartridges were intended to track at that pressure. However, as "universal" products, they were capable of being used over a wider range. Thus, I'd say that in a really fine tonearm, you might be able to use it at .9 grams. 1.25-1.5 is probably safer. I'd think that 1.3 grams would be a good all-around pressure. In fact, this pressure will probably work fine in the Lenco L75 tonearm! Stanton's recommended tonearm mass for this stylus group is 10-20 grams.

If you don't see the number "II" on the stylus, it is a first-generation Stereohedron. This was Stanton's parabolic. It was their own unique patented design. It is a superb stylus to live with. So, what you have is essentially the same as the Stanton 681-EEE/S and the Pickering XV15-757S except that yours, as a P-mount stylus, has no brush.
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MessagePosté le: Mer 12 Aoû - 13:00 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hello Richard

A very big thank you for the imformation, without you we would be lost! bow

At the moment, i sing the DTL-3 on the XV15 !!!!!!! Shocked

It's batism of fire to 1,35gr...
The céremony is:


FRANS HELMERSON "BACH, KODÁLY"
F. Helmerson:
-Cello "Lorenzo Ventapane, Napoli 1890 ( Strake, bow, bogen "Hans-Karl Schmidt, Dresden).
Recording: Revox A-77 Tape Recorder 15 i.p.s.,Sennheiser MKH 105. Microphones, Scoth 206 Tape.


MARCEL DADI "DADI'S FOLK"
M. Dadi:
-Ovation Acoustique Nylon modèle Marcel Dadi"country artist". Jacobacci Electrique 2 micros. Ovation Acoustique Electrique Folklore (branchée sur pupitre). 12 cordes Yamaki (mal accordée).
G. Peterson:
-Martin D28.
E. Kristy:
-Martin D18.
G. Caranhac:
-Pièces métalliques Doro, Lutherie Favino.
J-M. Redon:
- Banjo Véga.
P. Fanen:
-Fender Stratocaster sur ampli Matthews.

  IT'S MAGIC !!!!!!!! musique musique musique j'adore
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 13 Aoû - 00:46 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

I apologize for my iearlier mistake that your needle was appropriate for the 500/V15 body. The angle of your photograph threw me off. The needle's finger grip looked square.

The 500/V15/N bodies and former Stanton-styled styli are all pretty square. All the others from the 1960s onward are rectangular.

The future is cloudy, of course. It is possible for aftermarket manufacturers to make excellent imitations of Stanton needles. Whether they will or not is another matter. I have a small group of these that were assembled by Walco around 1980. They are wonderful styli except that their mounting tubes are too large. Thus, one needs a "sacrificial body" for each of them!

So, in general, if one is using an imitation, it is wise to be more careful with it.

An interesting fact about Stanton's original styli is that they tend to be stronger than the imitations. In fact, Stanton's needles are stronger than other manufacturers' for similar performance. This was due to various patented designs for cantilevers and finger grips. In addition, Stanton's closeness to the aerospace industry as well as their work in aviation and space programs led to certain aviation technologies and metalurgy becoming part of their cartridges and needles.
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 13 Aoû - 11:18 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hello Richard

That's me, i do apologize for being so bad photographer. Embarassed

Wen i found the stylus DTL, he deceived me too, i immediately thought it was a V15/500 cartridge. But wen i return to my home , i was surprised that he did not place in the V15 cartridge !?

Later, i saw it looked like the stylus Stanton 600! And i tought "Maybe it's  a V15 Micro IV Stylus," But i had no garantee!

So i tought "Richard is the man found the solution to this mystery"... And you've found! bow

You're right , to copies of Stanton stylus...
The stéréo shop in my city offered me a 500AL Stanton Stylus with the Stanton logo marked on one side body in gold ink, but the plastic body is black and is not marked on the other side the ref, and the stylus is not in the classical cubic box!

So i think it is a fake?! and since the price the same as the original stylus in n.o.s, i do not want it.
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 13 Aoû - 20:43 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

The D5000AL was my least favorite Stanton needle. In fact, it is the only one for the 500 body that I don't own! It was the strongest stylus that the company made, intended for the harshest mis-treatment. I regarded it as a "record killer."

Eng Bo, in Holland, disagreed with me. I was confused about our differing experience with this needle. Surprisingly, Stanton had changed the stylus without changing its designation! The later version is not so brutal; of course, it sounds better than it once did.

After Walter Stanton died, it appears that the former company was disbanded and reborn in a different form. The present company has issued data that I've found confusing and sometimes contradictory. They've re-named products and changed their specificatons. I am not commenting about their quality, however. A few Lencophiles have been pleased with certain recently-made needles that they've purchased. But the very finest cartridges of the 80s and 90s are no more.

Stanton has changed some of their products' appearances and their packaging. So what you found doesn't neccessarily mean that it's a fake. It would be interesting for us if you could learn a bit more about the authenticity of this needle.

Whether it is an authentic Stanton or an imitation, new or old, if you want to preserve your records, the D5000AL is not a needle you want to play them with.
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 20 Aoû - 14:12 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Hello Richard,

I'm happy to know i have escaped the killer stylus! whew
Anyway may intention was to find a  elliptical stylus original, this is why i had no interest in 500Al.
Even less if it's a carpenter's nail!!

I asked the source of the stylus in this catalog thath the seller of store showed me. the seller said it was a belgian provider and work with him for over 20 years. All styli are packaged in identicals boxes unbranded. the salesman said that all stylus copies, but looking, i also noticed on the picture presented some audio-technica stylus with a AT logo!? So i asked the seller "It's is an original? and he said " I do not think, i think the logo has been engraved on a copy."

In the past, i got the renplacement styli in this catalog, a copy of a Shure stylus N75/6  and i was désapointed! This styli is very hard, the diamond is huge!  He asked 3gr minimum and has no life! In comparison i have an original NB70 requesting only 2gr with a diamond size finer and has more beautiful sound. Same problem with a styli N75EDII also bought in this catalog, the catéliver crashes over 1gr! and the sound is too métallic and agressive.

Since i have no  reals answers on this catalog, i think it is a stylus recover from various sources with the arrival of CD's system in the 80'.
And as you said, that the stylus marked with a logo are probably originals reconditioned in other boxes.

... Question Question Question
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 20 Aoû - 21:08 (2009)    Sujet du message: PICKERING DTL-3 ??? Répondre en citant

Oh, boy, Eric!

Could you please let us all know what catalog this is. From your experience, it's obvious that this is a brand for all of us to avoid! I am not familiar with any aftermarket stylus manufacturers located in your country, but there is always something new to learn.

Now, I will clear up the Audio Technica logo business. In most cases that I've seen, aftermarket needle companies re-packaged genuine AT needles. I doubt that these are inferior. What this indicates is simply that AT provided these styli at such cheap prices that it didn't pay for the aftermarket stylus manufacturer to bother making copies themselves. Nonetheless, I do have one real imitation AT stylus: the cantilever suspension is a cheaper design.

Imitations of most other brands, however, are more common (as you have discovered the hard way). When it comes to cheap needles for mass-market record players, these aftermarket needle companies have provided a good service. It was common for the original cartridge companies to go out of business, or to stop making their own replacement needles. Therefore, for almost all of these cartridges, the aftermarket companies have become the only sources of replacement styli.

Some cartridge companies never made their own needles in the first place. They bought them from aftermarket needle companies!

On the other hand, in so many instances, aftermarket needle suppliers have had a habit of taking good quality stylus parts and then putting them together all wrong. I'm thinking seriously of providing a service of re-manufacturing new aftermarket styli for the classic General Electric mono cartridges. I experiment with this from time-to-time; it's tricky one-off work. I'm also working toward providing performance that's better than the original GE needles.
\
In many cases, what we hear from a cartridge is not so much the sound of the cartridge as it is the sound of the needle. This would be the case with the GE cartridges. It is, in fact, the truth with the lowly Stanton 500/Pickering V15. This body can be transformed into a budget audiophile cartridge simply by fitting it with the right stylus. Unfortunately, these needles have become rare. They were only produced for a short time.
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